Bank Charges when traveling to Australia 2
So what do the banks screw you out of on top of the odd company trying to get you to pay extra for no reason?
Well, it felt like we needed to Phd in something-or-other to understand the charge structure and whether we were better off getting cash out or paying on a credit card. So here is the fee structure from ASB
Cash Withdrawals Overseas:
$5.00 charge each time.
And then there’s this little gem – which applies to both Cash Withdrawals and Credit card transactions.
Offshore services margin
All cash withdrawals made at an overseas ATM using your ASB ATM or EFTPOS card will either first be converted into US dollars and then into New Zealand dollars or converted directly from the currency in which the cash withdrawal was made into New Zealand dollars at the applicable conversion rate.
Offshore service margins of 1.1% are added to the converted New Zealand dollar amount of each cash withdrawal made using your ASB ATM or EFTPOS card at an overseas ATM, excluding those withdrawals made using Commonwealth Bank of Australia ATMs.
The offshore service margins comprise a Visa international service assessment of 0.85% imposed on ASB by Visa and passed on to you, and an ASB margin of 0.25%.
The converted amount and the offshore service margins will appear on your statement.
For overseas cash withdrawals made using Commonwealth Bank of Australia ATMs an ASB retail exchange margin of 0.7% is included in the conversion rate by ASB. The total converted amount (including the ASB retail exchange margin where applicable) will appear on your statement.
What the bleeding hell does that mean?
Well in short – it means they are going to make a profit out of the conversion from NZD to the foreign currency. The problem is that some profit is already loaded into the exchange rate, so this is on TOP of that profit.
But the real dastardly bit is the part where they say they will either convert straight from NZD to the foreign currency if you withdraw cash – or they will bounce it via USD first. Now why are they doing that?
Basically, because they can skim some more money off the transaction by effectively trading currency at your expense if there is a wide variation in the currencies. Like the Holiday Inn and its 1.5% surcharge: in itself its small amounts, but added together with all the transactions occurring – its gotta add up. I wish I knew how it all worked - but like much in banking its all shrouded in mystery and complicated mathematics – so we as the consumer cant really ever check things like this. Which is annoying and quite frankly wrong. What are the banks hiding?
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Bank Charges when traveling to Australia.
NOTE: Opps – this got stuck in drafts rather than getting posted, so should actually have been posted before the “What the Shysters at the Holiday Inn did next”.
Sorry for any confusion.
If there’s one thing guaranteed to get my blood boiling that is not anything to do with immigration – its bank charges. I read today that New Zealand is following Australia in taking a class action against the banks for overcharging on “special fees” such as dishonour fees: charging $30 when it actually costs them about $1 to process the thing.
However still no-one is shouting about the ridiculous amount we get charged to spend money on our New Zealand cards when we go abroad. Even more disgusting when you consider that all the New Zealand banks apart from Kiwibank are actually owned by Australia – so why the bloody hell are they charging us fees when we visit their country and try to spend our money. All the money they screw out of us in profits comes here anyway – so it really is beating the crap out of us when we are down.
This evening we ate in the Hotel Restaurant at the Holiday Inn. As we went to sign the bill (which was being charged to our room) we saw a notice on the bottom of the receipt saying that there was a 1.5% charge added if you paid by credit card. Now this just pisses me off!
Companies should not expect their customers to pay their bank fees. We pay our own for crying out loud. But this got us wondering: were they expecting us to pay this 1.5% charge on our room bill as well?
Oh yes – they were!
Unfortunately when we asked about it at the front desk we were pointed (literally) to a sign (single) on the desk what mentions the charge.
Ok – I don’t care – its not on the booking form when you book the room, we weren’t told about when we checked in– the (single) sign was not pointed out to us, and it was only that we actually tend to read receipts that meant we knew were going to be charged extra on our bill. We asked for a business card for the manager and were given a feedback form to fill in.
Um – I don’t want a feedback form – I want the charge taken off and I want to speak to the manager! Now we were severely peeved. Eventually I decided that I was not going to be able to sleep while I was this angry. This is supposed to be relaxing trip – a chance to get well after the last few years of stress and illness: so to have to greedy money grabbing hotel decide to screw us out of extra money was not something I needed to deal with right now.
We eventually managed to get hold of a duty manger, and asked for the charge to be removed. This went reasonably well in that the charge was taken off, but I don’t think she really ever got why I was so angry – she kept asking what else had they done to upset me or what else was lacking in the hotels service. It is completely lost on these people that screwing their customers out of even a cent more than they should be is just wrong. Its unethical, its dishonest and it relies on the customers not noticing. And it is the most appalling customer service.
Lets be clear on this:
They do it because they know almost none their customers will notice the extra charge, and if they do, they won’t say anything about it.
Those of us that object to it get the charge removed.
Be one of those people!
Please don’t give them the pleasure of treating you like a mug. You already pay extra bank charges to buy anything when you go abroad – so don’t be conned into paying the companies bank charges as well. It’s a cost of them doing business – just like buying toilet rolls for the staff toilets. They don’t ask you for an extra dollar on your bill so the staff can wipe their bottoms do they? So why do they feel they can charge you to cover their bank charges?
BTW – the same thing happened this evening at the Crowne Plaza restaurant- owned by the same parent company (Intercontinental Hotels Group- IHG). Again – no mention when we made the booking, no one told us when we arrived, we just spotted the (single) sign on the desk. We spoke to the maitre’d before we sat down and said we wouldnt pay it – and could he let us know if this was a problem as we would not take the table if it was. He immediately told us that there would be no charge, and confirmed that later in the meal.
They know damn well they are breaking consumer law by not making clear extra charges at the time of booking, and they know damn well that they have to remove the charge if people tell them to.
Is what I say to this behavior!
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Be careful with re-fixing your Fixed Rate Mortgages
Filed under: Banks, Interest Rates, Credit Cards & Mortgages in NZ
Oddly enough – the New Zealand banks are trying to take a chunk of your cash for the privilege of paying more interest. Gits.
Fixed rates in New Zealand are currently way too high. Floating rates are at about 5.75% with fixed rates running at about 6% for 6 months upto a whopping 8.5% for 5 years.
Usually although in theory you would need to pay a fee for re-fixing a mortgage, but this is waived. Now it seems the banks are being a lot less keen on waiving that fee.
An ASB Bank document obtained by the Herald on Sunday said it introduced the new fee schedule to “reflect the time and complexity in providing the best in customer service”.
The fees would now apply from a series of dates between March and May.
While the document shows that the cost of the fees is reducing in some cases – from $250 to $50 – brokers say the customers will have a tougher time getting fees waived.
This is something we have had with ASB for about 2 years now. They wont waive bank charges, though they are still not charging us for new loans as we re-structure our lending. But to be honest – the cost of banking with them is going up, and the service is going down. I am certainly not getting “the best in customer service”. In fact – I’m getting lousy service – I just have to pay for it now.
So you do need to be careful. And you do need to shop around. Loyalty to a bank is frankly silly – they just do not deserve it – so if you are coming up to renewal time on your mortgages – shop around and go with whoever sweetens your life the best. Bear in mind that here in New Zealand one mortgages can splint up into several parts. That can add up if you get charged the full $250 to re-fix each part of a loan.
The only customers not having to pay fees for refixing a mortgage were those referred to as a “high value clients”.
The bank said in the document that fees were required by law to be “fair” and represent the cost of handling a loan. It said the fees were changing to “fairly reflect the time and resources we allocate to client interactions”.
The document also showed the ASB Bank was wiping a $500 contribution previously given to customers to help pay for legal fees.
Well, I’m certainly a “High Value Client” at ASB, but they still don’t give a damn. I have however managed to get them to reimburse us some legal fees that we have incurred because their loans department keeps stuffing up. So much for paying for service huh?
So be careful. Shop around, and make sure that paying off your mortgage is a high priority. That’s the one thing that will give you leeway to make your own choices and switch banks. Although the recession is basically over – the fallout from it could last years. The place we see that most is in the cost of mortgages and the unwillingness of banks to lend money to people who need it. Having small mortgages means the banks love you because you are a low risk to them. That’s a good position to be in!
Thanks to Christine for the heads-up!
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Cheques – not quite as you know them.
You know – I haven’t actually written a cheque in over 5 years. I just don’t use them here. With most people taking Eftpos, or direct credit via Internet banking – its actually quite rare for most people to need to do it. On the odd occasion that cheques are needed – I get cash instead (I don’t even know where my chequebook is!)
However, there is something you need to bear in mind if you do choose to use them here. Apart from for some really bizarre reason there’s a tax applied to their use, and you have to pay the bank for the privilege of getting a chequebook. Ok, that last bit’s probably not a huge shock.
Cheques in the UK are automatically “crossed” by the bank. That’s those 2 lines that you find with the words “AC Payee” or “Account Payee”. In New Zealand, they don’t have that. Now this is a basic security detail. As basic as it gets. That note on the cheque means that it can only be paid in to the account of the person you wrote the cheque to. It can be paid into someone else’s account.
The Banking Ombudsman has just highlighted this issue in an article in the Dom Post. It seems that people are crossing their cheques “Not Negotiable” which does not offer the same protection “Account Payee Only”.
The ombudsman notes that Banks could just sort this out by pre-printing the phrase, but stops short of telling them to get a grip and actually do it.
So be aware: NZ banks are failing to operate one of the easiest security measures they could use, and they charge you for the chequebook. If you do use them when you get here, make sure you cross them properly, because apparently the banks aren’t refunding funds that go missing.
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Bank Guarantees on loans
Filed under: Banks, Interest Rates, Credit Cards & Mortgages in NZ
When you take out a mortgage to buy your home, the mortgage is “secured” against the house. Most people get that, and understand it – it’s the bit that says “You can lose your home if you do not keep up the repayments on your loan” sort of thing.
But on top of that – you also get what is called a Personal Guarantee. Which says that even if we take your home, and you find some nifty way to try and get round paying us what you owe us, you personally guarantee that you will pay us what we want – even if its 20 times what your house was worth. Or something to that effect. Strangely enough its a nightmare of small-print and legal waffle.
And it’s the bit we seem to have no end of problems with in our dealings with ASB. I dread trying to organise mortgages with them now, because I can almost “guarantee” that there is gonna be a problem with the Guarantees.
We have yet another problem with them right because Ive actually paid off one of my mortgages.
Which is obviously a bit of a big thing for me. (Blog will be here as soon as I have the statement to copy and prove it!) It seems the ASB loan department have finally looked through the file, and worked out that one of the trustees in our Family Trust changed about 3 years ago. They were told, but it looks like everyone ignored it. Now they want us to sign another guarantee to replace that one.
For a loan that we have paid off.
Bloodsuckers!
So, as I am already a bit disgruntled with the loans people for screwing us around a few weeks ago, Ive said I wouldn’t do it unless they covered the legal costs – as Lawyers are needed (they are the trustees that changed). ASB have agreed to pay $250.00, so I’m instructing the solicitors that if it takes more than that, they need to stop working on it and tell me. I’m not paying for another bank stuff-up. They wont reduce my bank fees, so I’m not in the mood to indulge them right now.
I’ve also said that I need it in writing that the old guarantee is canceled, and that they are only wanting us to guarantee the amount of the outstanding loan – a rather large $210,000.00 less than the original guarantee.
Banks will try and sneak in a silly amount, but you can tell them to make the guarantee for the size of the loan only – it will have a clause in there that they can come after you for any associated costs and interest anyway.
I wait with baited breath to see what they will do.
One of the things to note about this situation, is that you may be advised to set up a family trust when you come to New Zealand. Usually on the premise that it protects your assets such as your home. But then the bank makes you sign these guarantees, and they bypass the whole family trust anyway. SO don’t be fooled. We are happy to have a family trust, because we have a business and investments, and it will to some extent protect the home my parents and brother live in if we stuff up. But every business loan we have has one attached, so if you go belly-up, the banks can come after us – there no hiding.
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Avalon’s Money Thread: Working out our net worth.
Filed under: Avalon's Money Thread, Banks, Economics, General Budgeting, Interest Rates, Credit Cards & Mortgages in NZ, Property & General Investing
We’ve done the budget, we’ve made some decisions, our personal Fixed Rate mortgage comes up for renewal in January, and we have decided to rejig the way we pay our mortgages.
All that was left to do was to track what our Net Worth was – which given the economy was a highly daunting task to be honest.
Your Net Worth is basically the value of what you own (assets) minus the value of you owe (debts). Unlike a Budget, which tells you what you are going to do over a month or year – your Net Worth tells you how much you have right now. Today.
It’s not difficult (especially if you have your accounts in order and your paperwork filed)– just a bit depressing at the moment. Because I like spreadsheets, and I’m lazy, I just copy the same spreadsheet from last year and fill in the numbers – its quite straightforward. In fact the only difficult bit to be honest is grabbing the bits of paper that contain the info you need.
On one side I have a list of all the assets: property, banks accounts, savings accounts, shares, pensions, car, and household goods (Insurance value is the best way to determine that).
On the other side are the mortgages, credit cards and any loans.
Take one from the other, and what is left is how much you are worth today.
In our case – about $250,000 less that we were 2 years ago.
I kid you not.
So why am I not crying into my coffee right now?
Well, Net Worth is a really good indicator of how you are doing financially. But it has to be taken in context. Most of that “wealth” is paper money. It doesn’t really exist. I don’t have $250,000 less dollar coins than I had – it’s just that my properties have gone down in value. In time – the value will go up again, and so will my “wealth”.
It becomes an issue if you want to borrow money and maximise how much money the banks will lend you – as they want to know the value of your assets. When I spoke to the valuer to get ours revalued – he said that he’s never been busier with banks insisting on clients getting up to date values on all their properties. While this can be annoying – I have to say I think I’m actually with the banks on this one.
I spoke to ANZ the other day about the possibility of refinancing a rental (the funds to be used to reduce personal mortgage – so no extra lending overall). They won’t lend more than 70% of the value of a rental, and my mortgage was for 75% already. The thing is, while doing this is defiantly for the banks good – it also prevents us as buyers from over extending. I think we personally got lucky that the recession hit so fast just after we bought our 3 rentals and couldn’t buy any more. It prevented us going mad, getting caught up in a storm and going belly-up which has happened to an awful lot of people.
We have “protected” as much as we can of our net worth by paying down as much debt as we can as fast as we can. So while our assets are worth much less, so are our debts. There is actually a lot you can learn from a recession, and if you can get through this and come out the other side – then just think what you will be like when the economic climate improves.
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Argghhh – Banks (again).
I dream of one day waking up and finding out that the people in charge of my banks in New Zealand actually look at their customers accounts and business before making blanket decisions.
It would be nice – just once – to be treated by a financial institution as if I was something more than the dirt beneath their feet.
Today’s frustrations comes from finding out that I have lost my Interest rate discount on my personal Revolving Credit mortgage. Of course – the bank didn’t bother to tell me this – that would be proactive and customer focused. Instead I found it out while doing my accounts and balancing my statements.
So I contacted my Personal Relationship Manager – who I have to say is exceedingly good, and I have absolutely no complaints about – to ask for it to be restored.
Except – as always – there’s some faceless ninny in a back office who says “no”. Faceless ninny of course doesn’t have to front up to pissed off customers – but hides in the back office and lets someone else take the heat for their stupidity.
So here’s the thing that makes said person in back office a complete moron.
I hardly ever pay interest on that account anyway. In fact last year –out of 12 months – I paid interest on only 3 months – most of the time the bank had to pay me because I was in credit. Things have been tight this year – so I have had to pay a little bit.
$429.60.
Since April.
My rate is 5.75, but with the discount would be 5.5%.
What this means is that over the same period – I would have paid $410.92. (Ha – see school maths and simultaneous equations really does come in handy every so often).
Now it would be worth the bank perhaps not giving a discount on a mortgage where someone pays a lot of interest – our original interest charges were nearly $1000 a month. But in this case – for the sake of $18.68 they have hacked me off, and I’ve written a blog about them.
And I’m about to pull my life and income protection business off them as a reward. That’s $220 a month in premiums down the toilet.
Never think you cant do something to get the banks back if they treat you like garbage. There are ways – and we can vote with our feet. It might be difficult with banks as they all seem hell-bent on trying the be as crap as each other – but hey – we can still try.
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Argghhh – why all these “extra” charges???
My perennial favourite of course being the patently ridiculous “Automatic Payment Loading Fee” the bank charges me to do their job for them and set up a standing order – but just this week I have seen three almost as ridiculous examples of spurious rip offs.
First goes to Ticketec. Now they always add silly charges – mostly for posting your tickets to you. Extra if you live in the countryside of course. And they will charge you if you don’t want them to send it to you – you want to pick them up instead. But now they have gone one further and will charge you $5 if you want to print your ticket at home, on your own printer, using your own ink, and your own paper.
Second goes to Reading Cinema who again charges you $2 for the “privilege” of ordering your ticket over the internet and saving the staff 2 minutes work.
But taking the biscuit completely for a wacky and completely pointless charge goes to Aotea Pathology. I needed to go have a blood test on Saturday morning – which meant I had to get up at 7am (and on a Saturday dammit) and go into Welly because the local clinics don’t do tests on Saturday (sensible people).
So I go in, give my name, pay the bill and am asked to sit down and wait. It wasn’t until I came out of the labs that I happened to look at the bill. Alongside the two charges for the tests themselves is a third charge.
Encounter Fee – $12.57
WHAT?????
This it seems is the charge for the lady at reception to take my name and charge me the fee and ask me to sit down.
The mind boggles.
Bloody rip off merchants.
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Watch those Direct Debits in New Zealand.
I need to cancel a Direct Debit. No problem you would think? Hmmm, not so fast – this is the New Zealand Banking system, and so of course it just ain’t that simple.
In Avalon’s Guide, one of things I stress is:
And something which is vitally important: once you have closed down all your utilities in the UK, like gas, electricity, internet, and you have told them not to take any more money from you via Direct Debits – also tell your bank! You should always cancel your Direct Debits with the bank, and then if any company “forgets” that they shouldn’t be charging you anymore, they can’t get your money.
So I figured (I think rather sensibly) that I would do the same thing here. Cancel the Direct Debit at the bank just in case the company I’m dealing with (which so far has shown itself to be run by a bunch of bone idle morons) “forget” and try and take another premium.
But the bank wont do it.
Apparently, the only way to cancel the DD at the bank is to cancel my Credit Card and get a new one.
What???? 
Are these people for real?
This is despite a clause on the DD form that says:
2. The Customer may:
(a) At any time, terminate this Authority as to future payments
by giving written notice of termination to the Bank and to
the Initiator.
(b) Stop payment of any Direct Debit to be initiated under this
Authority by the Initiator by giving written notice to the
Bank prior to the Direct Debit being paid by the Bank.
Apparently, I cant.
So I contacted Direct Debit New Zealand, who were also as effective as a wet paper bag. Although they have said:
At directdebit.co.nz we are looking to increase the visibility of these
processes to ensure the “customer” controls the direct debit process more.
Which is nice.
So be warned. Here in New Zealand the Direct Debit system, which is supposed to offer us all sorts of protection, doesn’t.
The banks are ignoring their duty under the agreements we signed.
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KiwiBank Analysts – need to switch thier brains on.
Kiwibank asked their “analyst” to look again at our application for a Credit Card. Which if you think about it is a bit silly as he is hardly going to be admitting to be an idiot.
But the same analyst has said no – because yes – he is still an idiot – and can’t grasp that there’s actually a lot more at stake than a bloody credit card.
The thing which makes me want to scream with frustration is that its actually people like this who caused the collapse of the banking system and the recession in the first place – because they insist that money behaves in a vacuum.
You see money is just a number.
- X amount of debt is too much
- Y amount of debt isn’t enough.
Analysts and Economists tend to forget that it’s Human Beings who spend money, or don’t spend it, and do it in the main for emotional reasons. Analysts don’t tend to look at any other factor. This guy is only interested in the amount of debt. He doesn’t give a toss about excess income, savings, assets, or amount of debt paid off. He looks at one number in isolation and decides whether you are worthy or not.
They also tend to forget that when you piss us off – we can have very long memories, and bad customer service now will be remembered for a very long time.
Its also hugely frustrating that while we obviously can afford a credit card, never having missed a payment in our lives – we can’t get a new one, and yet people who have no hope of being able to pay off the balances will get offered them by the bucket load. And if anyone thinks that’s not the real reason we have been turned down – you could be dreaming.
The fact is people like us don’t actually make money for the banks on our credit cards, because we don’t pay interest. Credit cards only work for the banks if you don’t pay them off. The damage that has been done across the western world by banks insisting on giving credit cards (and mortgages) to people who cannot pay off the balance is staggering.
It should be said that I have been dealing with a very patient and understanding man at Kiwibank (the Analyst wont “front up” to a mere “customer”). It’s a pity that the humans aren’t in charge.
So, thats BNZ and Kiwibank who will never see a cent of our money.
The list of banks who haven’t right royally hacked us off yet is getting smaller. 
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