25 Comments on NZ Herald article

Richard on Tue, 22nd Sep 2009 10:27 am


How come they’re not focusing on that commercial immigration site Britishexpats.com?. At least 3 of the official moderators there on the New Zealand forum give out immigration advice, how many migrants have been mis-sold, or mislead because of that website?

It’s not uncommon to see forums like that telling people to come over on visitors visas and find jobs when they get here. Highly irresponsible if you ask me.

lonejafa on Tue, 22nd Sep 2009 10:31 am


Since one can not talk or write (or think) about New Zealand Immigration policies without landing in a Rotorua type hot water spring. Might I suggest you start foruming/ discussing a ficticiuos country like New Zedland or New Whyland. Copyright infringement would be defficult to prove, where an homage was paid, besides New Zealand has the North Island and the South Island. New Zedland has the West Island and the East Island.

Tim on Tue, 22nd Sep 2009 11:48 am


Sounds like a good reason to change the rules. I personally think you are well within your right to speak your mind. And don’t let them get you down!

Hubby on Tue, 22nd Sep 2009 10:55 am


Hi lonejafa
Actually I had thought of writing about the New Zealand Raspberry Service, and the importation of foreign raspberries, where they might like to grow, roles the may wish to consider (pudding, sole trader, being cloned etc.), or whether they may be better off growing in Australia.
Sadly I was warned off.

Sarah on Tue, 22nd Sep 2009 11:09 am


Given that there are people scamming fake passport, fake nationality scams, taking money from the vulnerable I would have thought an out-in-the-open, free to view blog would have been a good thing. Officials would have been free to post comments to correct any misinformation.

If the information was getting out of hand – ie you were wrong too often – then they would have reason to act but that doesn’t appear to be the problem.

I’m sorry that you’ve fallen into this bureaucratic nightmare.

Sarah

Avalon on Tue, 22nd Sep 2009 11:11 am


Richard -

Funnily enough – most of the forums still have plenty of people giving “illegal” advice – its often just preceded by “This is not immigration advice”. And the IAA have made it clear to me that they wont do anything about it, and the forum owners also are not it seems going to do anything about it – or fighting the law.

Lonejafa,

As Hubby said – we were going to do that – our first response to something as silly as this law is always sarcasm

Ivan on Tue, 22nd Sep 2009 11:14 am


Helen, I must point out… it is IAA (not IIA) and it stands for Immigration Advisers Authority and for your readers’ information, the Authority who manages the IALA (Immigration Advisers Licensing Act):
http://nzmigration.wordpress.com/immigration-advice-in-new-zealand/

It currently costs about $1,400 annually to be licensed and you have to be fully aware of what the licensing entails – immigration policies, procedures, do’s and dont’s.

The NZHerald article is NOT an immigration advice. It is general information about you and your written warnings for giving immigration advice. You MUST think policy here and the definitions of what an immigration advice is:
http://nzmigration.wordpress.com/2009/08/16/what-is-immigration-advice/

It would be sad to see your very good postings get taken away by a simple misunderstanding. Avoid giving immigration advice and if in doubt, consult a professional.

Ivan Flinn
International Advisor
Woburn International Ltd

Hubby on Tue, 22nd Sep 2009 11:23 am


Hi Ivan
Thanks for all your comments, typo on my part IIA vs IAA, not Helen’s – which I’ve now edited.
I personally do a lot of work with the Institute of Internal Auditors, whom are clearly not to be confused with the Immigration Advisors Authority.
I’m sure Helen will respond to the comments once she’s waded through all the emails etc.
thanks
Hubby.

Avalon on Tue, 22nd Sep 2009 11:29 am


Cheers Sarah – Although this looks like a nightmare (and today my fingertips may got worn off replying to everyone) – its a great thing to get a light shone on this issue. My sincere hope is that the law gets chagnged and does what it is supposed to do – licence agents to get rid of the ones that rip migrants off, and leave the blogs and forums alone to act as support groups and a voice for migrants

charlotte on Tue, 22nd Sep 2009 11:40 am


Thanks to the nz herald for publicising your story – I’ve just read the entire fascinating saga. Hmm. I wonder why they’re trying to shut you down, eh

Perhaps we need to organise an NZ Blogger’s ‘Write about immigration day’.

Darren Cronian on Tue, 22nd Sep 2009 12:54 pm


Absolutely bloody stupid law. If you were providing inaccurate advice then fair enough as this could cause problems for them, but if it is sound advice from your own experiences then what the hell is the matter with that??

This kind of crap gets my blood boiling!

Avalon on Tue, 22nd Sep 2009 1:39 pm


Blood Boiling I can relate to that

Annie on Tue, 22nd Sep 2009 1:59 pm


Bureaucratic nonsense! The article drew me to this well informed website today and all I can offer is that, without reading the whole blog, it is simply a diary of day to day experiences which happens to involve moving from one country to another.
You live in a so called free land by choice, are not asylum seekers or indeed trying to circumvent rules to live in NZ. Most tellingly, you are contributing to NZ by being gainfully employed and sharing the experience.
Nowhere have I, so far anyway, taken anything as advice given and wonder who alerted immigration noddies to your well thought out observations.
I wish you all that is good and hope you continue sharing your world with many anonymous readers as I for one am about to share the link with my friends.
Cheers, Annie

Hubby on Tue, 22nd Sep 2009 7:41 pm


Hi Richard
Oddly enough – I actually heard the previous immigration minister stand up in front of an international audience at a conference in Auckland and encourage those who were visiting the country to ‘try and find a job’. Plus encourage their friends/colleagues to come on over on a holiday and look for jobs, since ‘getting a work visa with skills is quick’.
Not that you’re supposed to do that either.

Disappointed on Tue, 22nd Sep 2009 8:39 pm


I have been reading the blog on and off for a couple of months now and am absolutely disgusted that any authority is prepared to slash the right of the many on order to protect the very few who cannot see a blog for what it is – personal musings of somebody who shares their experience. I am seriously considering moving to NZ from the UK, but if a government takes this sort of liberties to interfere with basic rights, I’ll have to think this over.

Avalon on Tue, 22nd Sep 2009 8:58 pm


Annie,

Cheers for teh support In fact no one has dobbed me in to the IAA – I have actually been trying to get some help from them to understand why the hell blogs are illegal, and to try and get a licence (which they have told me I cant get). They have been as helpful as they can be given that they too are working with a pants law In fact my only personal beef with the IAA is that the Registrar Mr Smedts seems to be saying to the media that we shoudl register when he knows full well the law does not allow it. I find that sickeningly dishonest of him.

Disappointed.
I know and understadn how you feel. We were eager to leave Bliars Britain and it increasing infringments on human rights. It sickens me that as a Migrant in New Zealand – I am stripped of those rights. The New Zealand government should be ashamed, and rescind the law immediately while they find someone intellegent to re-write it.

Hubby on Tue, 22nd Sep 2009 9:30 pm


Hi Disappointed
Please don’t let this put you off – NZ has far more going for it (IMHO).
If we want to look at civil liberties, consider the UK’s Anti Terror legislation, which makes it a criminal (prison time) offence to protest within 1km of parliament square. you what? We can’t make our elected representative aware of our strong objection to something? it’s no wonder people are rioting in Birmingham etc.

There was a really good exhibition at I think it was the Tate modern which illustrated this. Part of the room was within the 1km ‘exclusion zone’, and the artist placed all his ‘offending’ material just outside the zone, with some lane drawn across the room highlighting to people the blank space within the 1km zone.

And don’t get me started on the whole thing about people having to give over password details for encrypted emails.. Jack Straw got caught with this when an email account ‘belonging’ to him was reported to the Police as containing ‘illegal activity’ Check out the Regulation of Investigatory Powers act – which in it’s original form would have given even your local village council the right to snoop on your emails..!!
It is with no small amount of amusement I see now that Mr Straw’s hotmail account has been hacked – and he’s been doing Govt. business on it. tut tut.

http://blog.trendmicro.com/hackers-use-jack-straws-account-for-419-scam/

Andy on Wed, 23rd Sep 2009 1:01 am


Hi There,

Just read the article on the Herald web site. As an immigrant myself (from NZ to Sweden) I can say that there is so much that the immigration officials will not tell you, in any country in the world.

They are first and foremost employed by the government, and have to look out for said administrations perspectives, or ideologies if you will. I will not elaborate on this, as it is very self-explanatory.

In the governments mindset here, if you are down at the local pub and get some advice, that could be considered illegal, since when did the immigration officials turn into the SS? The law should not have passed, it is – as said here – against the bill of rights, or in a more international sense, against any sane western governments constitution. Can anyone say unconstitutional? If this was in the US, the supreme court would have laughed at it.

In any democracy, the freedom of expression is paramount. This “censorship” is a one-way street that could lead to the loss of many more freedoms.

The question has to be asked, it is low I know, but I have to. Were the immigration officials being shown up by your knowledge of the laws and regulations here, is this why you are being targeted?

There are specific regulations and benefits in Sweden to help newly immigrated people to get established here. None of this information was divulged to me, it was all from word of mouth. There was even an attempt to almost mislead when they were asked about these assistances.

The topic of false information being spread is insignificant, and not worth such extreme measures. Said immigrant can simply ask an official about such recommendations. If the official is unaware of said recommendation, then maybe they should do their job better.

Being as I have never been an immigrant in NZ and have no firsthand experiences here, I can not comment on my home countries immigration tendencies. This is your field.

I hope this unlawful law is abolished very quickly.

Med vänliga hälsningar från Sverige.

Andy

mico santos on Wed, 23rd Sep 2009 1:31 am


I’m with you rock on

Skip on Wed, 23rd Sep 2009 5:18 am


Hm, sounds like a capricious catch 22 to me. So you can be charged for illegally “giving immigration advice” even when you don’t ask for money for your services. But they won’t licence you unless you ask for money for your services (i.e.,you must have “clients”?!). As a lawyer myself, I’m disturbed by the government’s policy in this regard. Feels like oppressive over-reaching. Information about immigration should be equally available to all people, not just those who pay thousands for advice. To say nothing about protecting our basic freedom to speak our opinions.

Avalon on Wed, 23rd Sep 2009 8:13 am


Skip, couldnt have put it better myself – and Im really glad that a Lawyer can see the problem we face. It does make me sick that the IAA is registrar is making out that we have the option to get a licence. Hes lying, and should be sacked just for that.

Getting a licence was the first thing I tried to do as soon as I realised what the law actually meant. I have no objection to following a code of conduct, or code of ethics (ha – ethics in the Immigration industry – thats a good one), or to doing CPD – I ve done hundreds of hours of that already this year.

But I do not have the right to get a licence.

Avalon on Wed, 23rd Sep 2009 8:35 am


This “censorship” is a one-way street that could lead to the loss of many more freedoms.

Yes it could – and it disturbs me that so many people on the forums are not prepared to speak out and be counted on this issue. Censorship has always existed on the forums – but thats a private domain and the forum owners do have the right to block points of view they do not agree with. When a government passes a law like this – we should all be scared.

The question has to be asked, it is low I know, but I have to. Were the immigration officials being shown up by your knowledge of the laws and regulations here, is this why you are being targeted?

No – I can definately say that is not what happened. The IAA have not targeted me directly – though they have gone after a forum owner. In fact until Mr Smedts bullshit comments about how we can get licenced if we want to – I have actually been pretty understanding about the position the IAA have been put in. They are also having to deal with a stupid law – written by imbeciles.

I personally beleive however that this law was instigated because the Immigration Agent Industry gets a very bad rap from the forums and blogs, the vast majority of whom seem to aggree that they are a huge waste of money, and do bugger all for it. I dare say Immigration New Zealand finds the law similarly useful in shutting us all up because it is true that we do have a tendency to make them look like blithering idiots from time to time, and we do expose all the cock-ups they make.

Fortunatley for us – the law does not prevent us from continuing to tell our stories of incompetence

Hubby on Wed, 23rd Sep 2009 9:23 pm


As a shout out – commentary on other blogs on this topic includes;

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/09/ridiculous-2.html

http://whaleoil.gotcha.co.nz/2009/09/22/off-with-his-head-2/

http://travel-rants.com/2009/09/22/blogger-forced-stop-advising-immigration/

We’re grateful for the support.

Hubby on Wed, 23rd Sep 2009 9:59 pm


Other shout outs:
how could I not give a shout out to crusader-rabbit – cool domain;
http://crusader-rabbit.blogspot.com/2009/09/blogger-told-to-stop-giving-advice-on.html

http://www.thepaepae.com/ok-now-this-is-getting-silly/585/

http://nu-zealand.blogspot.com/2009/09/what-freedom.html

Hubby on Wed, 23rd Sep 2009 10:05 pm


and debate on one of the forums;
http://expatexposed.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=30877

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